Interviewer: Paul Steckler
Production Team: D
Interview Date: December 9, 1988
Camera Rolls: 4074-4077
Sound Rolls: 431-432
Produced by Blackside, Inc.
Housed at the Washington University Film and Media Archive, Henry Hampton Collection.
Interview with Marian Logan, conducted by Blackside, Inc. on December 9, 1988, for Eyes on the Prize II: America at the Racial Crossroads 1965 to 1985. Washington University Libraries, Film and Media Archive, Henry Hampton Collection.
These transcripts contain material that did not appear in the final program. Only text appearing in bold italics was used in the final version of Eyes on the Prize.
I think people lose track of who Martin Luther King was as a person, in the midst of all this history and all these things. What was Martin Luther King like as a man?
As a man I'm glad, I wish someone would say as a man and really follow through, you know. Because the boy was a man, and he was a human being, he was, ah, a marvelous sense of humor, loved to joke, loved to play jokes on any others, you knew, particularly Ralph, or Andy. And me sometimes. And, ah, he loved to sing, he loved all kinds of music, not just the hymns and the freedom songs that we sang, you know. I can remember in, ah, Oslo, when he sang "I Left my Heart in San Francisco". And he couldn't remember all the words but that was all right. He had a good voice, and, ah, he would often tell jokes. And if we were, on the road somewhere, you know, on a trip somewhere, or at a convention. At night- Martin was one who did not sleep, my husband would give him pills, my husband was the doctor, I remember, and would give him those because he complained about not being able to sleep. And, ah, Martin would take the pills, and then sit up and talk the pill effect away, you know. He would come to my suite some nights, 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning, knock on the door and say, "Hello darlings, I just came to say good night. I had prayers with you to say good night." I said, "Martin you're lying, you didn't come to say good night. Come in and sit down." And he would sit, and he would look around. And I knew what he was looking for. And I said, "What's the matter Martin." Martin, he said, "Marian you don't treat your leader right." I said, "What's wrong?" He said, "Well you didn't give me anything, so that I can go to sleep." He was looking for a drink, you know. He trusted me enough, I have now thought about it many times. And since others have spoken of it, ah, I think at that time he trusted me enough to let me know that he did like to have drink once in awhile, and it did relax him. But then he would start talking, and it would go on for hours. I'd look up and it would be 7 or 8 o'clock in the morning, and we were supposed to be going somewhere, staff and whatnot at a press conference or something. And Martin would go, "I have to get some sleep." He would maybe sleep for an hour or so, and then get up. I've never in my life seen the man, so brilliant when it came to, ah, thinking on his feet, out of a dead sleep. We'd be on a plane, and when we'd land somewhere the press would come in with the cameras, you know, ah, with the lights blaring right in his eyes, right in his face, so then he would wake up. And they would start interviewing him, and Martin would be brilliant. How he did it I don't know, these are things I think, a lot of people didn't know about him. He was a brilliant man, and, ah, I don't need to tell you how he could speak, and really work people up with his- not just "I have a dream" and "With this faith", and a lot of themes that he followed you know.
It's early 1967 and--
and Dr. King is about to take a stand, that, that a lot of people are going to have a lot of things to say about his stance on the Vietnam War.
Very unpopular. Among many of our friends, and I guess, I dare say, all of the other leaders of the, what we call the Big Six. You know, they were very against it, as a matter of fact, frankly at the beginning so was I. And, ah, I'm not so sure Dr. Logan was, ah, really against it. He was more of a thinker, and he was trying to figure just from where Martin was coming, you know. But we had meetings here at the house, where, ah, Whitney and Roy and Bayard, and Dorothy Height, and Martin. I'm trying to think whom else, I've left out somebody. But anyway, the Six would get around, and everyone as I remember was against it, except Martin. But Martin tried to explain, he really was dedicated to his feeling of the moral- morality or the lack of morality in the Vietnam War. And, ah, the same way he was committed to real, true, non-violence. And, ah, sometimes that interfered with the, the thinking or the machinations of others, you know who, had their own agendas, or different agendas, maybe even- Martin, Martin was very rigid about his, ah, non-violence and, ah, when he finally got around to the Vietnam War he was really, you know, really bent on it. You could not move him. And as has turned out, years later, I've often wondered what Martin would say now.
In those conversations at the house, what did Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young, why did they tell him they were against this?
I think, ah, now I'm trying to remember I wanna be fair to everybody, but I think at the time Roy and Martin- Roy and Whitney I think were more politically indoctrinated. And maybe more politically aware of things, which Martin didn't feel was important as his beliefs, you know what I mean?
What were they thinking?
Well, I think for one thing, they felt that we were, we took the stand against the War would be anti the administration at the time, which happened to be Johnson. And they felt that Johnson had, and he had, done some very good things in the Civil Rights Era, I think will go down if history is written truly. That Lyndon Johnson was one of the finest presidents, for domestic affairs, in our lifetime, in this era. Ah, I think, well I know the Vietnam War was what killed Lyndon, you know.
You said, when you first heard that Dr. King, or first heard that he was gonna come out strongly against the War, you too, initially were against it.
Yeah, because I thought that he, he was getting into the politics, and he should stay with the Civil Rights thing. And then when he explained, that this had a lot to do with Civil Rights. Not just Civil Rights, but human rights. He always tried to make that distinction, because everybody, the press, everybody, always said everything was Civil Rights, you know. And they'd always talk about Black leaders. Martin's thing always was, Human rights, and not just Blacks. People didn't realize, or didn't understand it was, I don't think it was said enough, stressed enough, that there were lots of Whites involved, in the Civil Rights struggle. And lots more poor Whites, by virtue of the fact that there are lot more Whites, you know, than there were Blacks who were poor in this country. And those are the people, about whom Martin cared. And those are the ones whose concerns he tried to espouse. And, ah, unfortunately, sometimes it got mixed up with their, you know, with the politics, and with whatever happened to be the theme of the time. We would have different currents running through the country, you know.
There was something you told me, or I think you told Jackie on the phone, that you said this was a real turning point, in terms of his mood. In that after the Riverside speech, and after he came out strongly against the War, he was affected by the reaction, do you remember?
Yes, yes. He was very depressed, I think, he stayed depressed and he got progressively more depressed as he went along. He'd have his up times, I mean you could make him laugh and joke, that kind of thing. But I think innately he was a very unhappy distressed person. I don't think it was because he doubted the position he had taken, that it was wrong, I think he felt badly that, and a lot of people didn't agree with him. Or couldn't understand his reason for taking that stand. And, ah, it depressed him terribly and I began to see him, you know going down from that. Ah, it was a sad thing, to see wish I had been, been able to be more supportive at the end.
Let's cut for a second.
So when you first heard about Dr. King's first coming out against the war in Vietnam, how did you feel?
Well I was shocked, I was surprised.
Can you start with "when I first heard,"
Ah. When I first heard about Dr. King coming out against the war in Vietnam, I was really surprised and I wasn't sure that I was really in agreement with him in the beginning. Although, I came to understand his position, which that of a moral commitment he had, and the feeling that it was unjust. I think he had discovered long before we did that there were many more Black soldiers in Vietnam fighting and dying: he was just against the war. He was just against the war. It wasn't a thing he had to do, it wasn't a political thing--I think as it turned out, it was kind of like a death knell for him--it was a very brave thing for him to do because he went against all the people who we considered reasonable** people--not just the President and all those in the Democratic Party, but all the leadership of the Black community, and others--our Jewish friends who wouldn't be brave enough to come out and say- I think it was a very brave act for Martin, and I'm proud of him for that.
Later in 1967, into the summer and in the fall--
--ah, Martin King came up with a new idea. The new idea of Poor People's Campaign.
And, what were your reactions, when you first heard it, why and why?
Uhum. Well, when I first heard it I thought, I don't know about that, I couldn't envision what it was gonna be. I didn't note potential or anything. But the more I heard about it, and the more I thought about it. The more I felt that it was not wise. I was afraid what would happen, going to Washington, Martin's ideas. You know, it grew, kind of like top seed, to the point where he just said, "Everybody y'all come." And as it turned out, people left their homes, they left everything and just came to Washington. Riding on buses those who could, some walked. People came all kinds of ways, but left everything. They came because they believed something really was gonna happen, and the government was going to take care of them. And I began to feel that, ah, we had bitten off a lot more, than we were gonna be able to chew. So I talked to Martin about it, we had our disagreements. Then I sat down, I guess over a period of a couple of weeks or so, I thought about it and I wrote a memo.
I want to go back to the Poor People's Campaign--
Specifically starting again when I first heard, because I know that you had qualms about the tenor of the times and the possible effect on Dr. King.
So, let me start the question again. How did you feel about the Poor People's Campaign and why?
When I first heard about it, I was really very apprehensive. I thought that as it began to develop, or as I heard about how it was developing, it was becoming much too big and unwieldy for us to be able to handle. And, ah, also considering the tenor of the times, I wasn't sure that it could be a success. I wasn't sure that Congress, and the powers that be in Washington D.C., would be welcoming because it wasn't like '63 which was such a glorious march and glorious day, you know. This bringing of poor people to the seat of government was like, you know, throwing it in their faces, and I don't think too many of the officialdom of Washington was gonna take that with any great grace. So I had many reservations about it, and after thinking about it for a long time, and speaking to my husband about it, and other friends. I've devised this memo, and, ah, I sent it to Martin. And at the same time, I sent copies to every member of the board of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, because Martin had a way of getting my letters, and messages, and memos, and things, and we would laugh and talk about, but he would never tell anybody else, you know. And, ah, I felt this was something that was very important, that the board as a whole should know about it. And, ah, Martin was very unhappy with me about that.
And then the last week before he died.
And then you had a long evening with you and your husband and Dr. King--
Can you tell us about that night?
Well it was an horrendous evening, he came around eight o'clock in the evening. And he stayed until I guess it was, almost 7:30, 8 o'clock the next morning. We sat up and talked and had drinks, but mainly Martin was trying to turn me around. To change my mind about my opposition, to the War. I mean the, not the War, the Poor People's Campaign. And finally my husband said, "Martin, leave her alone, you know. She's not gonna change her mind, she believes in this very strongly. And I think you should accept it." Martin left, you see, just to- I don't think he could ever accept it because at the end of that, that was on a Monday night. He called me every night, every day, sometimes twice day, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And Thursday was the night he was killed.
You were upset at the end of that night?
Oh, Lord, yes, oh, I was devastated by it. And, ah, I've always felt if only we had a little more time to talk, not that I would have changed his mind, but maybe we could have come to an adjustment of our feelings about it, so that we wouldn't be as rigid. I was hoping that he would really understand my feelings and why my decisions was as it was. And I also was hoping, more importantly, that I could make him know, that I understood his position and how he felt it was so necessary that he do this.
Did you feel that the Poor People's Campaign, how it'd affect his credibility as a leader, and how well it was gonna be organized?
I was, I was afraid, that our group, the people in our organization were not gonna be enough to handle a country-wide mass of people. You know, there were a lot more people I think than we had expected would come. People were, and Martin would just say, "Y'all come!" and people were coming from everywhere, all over the country. Black, White, Indians, Mexicans, everything. And I didn't know how we were gonna control that, and keep it, ah, really non-violent which was the main thing because, ah, Martin would've been just overwhelmed had anything, ah, not gone non-violently. As the shock on his face the night before in Memphis, when they took him out of the march, he, Martin was not afraid for himself, as many people interpreted it, said, "Martin looked like he was scared." It wasn't that thing, Martin was so shocked that anything relating to violence could be around him. He just couldn't believe that such a thing could happen.
Didn't he call you that night, after--
--the important march.
What did you advise him to do?
Well I tell you, I did tell him he ought to get his ass out of Memphis. Those are my very words. And he said, "Darling, we can't turn around now." He said, "We have to keep going." I said, "OK, Martin." You know.
--repeating what I said you mean?
After the aborted march in Memphis, did Dr. King call you?
Yes, ah, and, ah, I was upset because I had seen the expression on his face, and I saw, ah, Ralph of course, who was with him, he was distressed. And I just told him, I said, "Martin, I think you need to get your ass out of Memphis." And he said, "Well, darling," he said, "you know we have to keep going, this is our movement." I said, "But you haven't prepared those garbage workers like we generally have," you know. We'd send Andy in and Bayard and a few others too to get people organized in non-violence and make them understand how important it was. And these garbage workers were not, ah, trained like that. And it was really, you know, a polyglot group of men, it was a union movement. And, ah, but Martin wouldn't give in, because he just had to go back and show that he, prove that he could do, leading non-violent march of garbage workers in Memphis, Tennessee, in 1968.
When you say there was a threat of violence in Washington. If there had been violence in Washington, what would that have produced?
Oh, I think you would have seen all kinds of troops, from federal to state to city. All the police I think it would have been terrible massacre en masse. Head-whipping and everything. I think it would have been terrible.
Would it have led to a backlash in the election?
Oh, no question, of course.
Can you start by when I say, "It would have lead to a backlash," just repeat part of the question?
Oh, lead to a backlash, my goodness there's no question. A terrible backlash, because there were many people who felt, that the Civil Right's Movement had gotten too many things already. You know, we'd gotten the Civil Right's Bill passed, you know, many things had happened, nationally, you know after President Kennedy was killed and Johnson was doing, President Johnson was doing, I think a terrific job, on the domestic front. And, ah, I think there are many people in this country who thought that we had given, the Blacks enough. You know.
And the violence, if there had been violence in Washington that would have provoked them.
Oh yes, certainly, yeah. I don't think there be any way, that the troops or anybody else could have, could have kept it, ah, in a calm situation. Because I think there would have been, Whites fighting Blacks, and Blacks fighting Whites. Because there were a lot more than just non-violent committed people from SCLC. You know, there were people from all over the country then, you know, who came. And they may not be as committed, or were not as committed, probably to the, mission of non-violence.
You know, a lot of people came from around the country, and Resurrection City didn't work out very well.
Was there anything that you felt that was unfortunate about that?
Yes, the whole thing, I think it was so tragic, ah, I remember when I went down there. The thing was, it wasn't well planned. Ah, there were things like toilets that weren't functioning, and as a result, water, and not just water, feces and everything was running all around the thing. The mo- most God awful stench in the world, and it was a health hazard among other things. But, the powers that be felt that it had to stay for awhile and had to happen. And, ah, Ramsey Clark was Attorney General who believed that poor people had to--
I want to start on this again
You were telling me on the phone, or maybe Jackie on the phone, about how Resurrection City had these problems, but they're also things you can laugh at. And you're just telling us that story--
Yes, well. That's one thing, boy, if we didn't have any humor in the movement we were dead. But I went one morning with Roger and a couple of guys from the Justice Department whom Ramsey had sent over with us, and somehow Roger slipped on those boards that was just encrusted with, ah, mess, and he fell into the thing. Well, I had to laugh, it was so funny, I felt sorry for him, but it, it broke the tensions, 'cause we were very nervous, we never knew what was gonna happen next, you know. And they had sent the, the FBI people, or the b- the Justice people, around to kind of watch over things.
Can I interrupt you for one second?
Could you tell us that same story, but could you say Roger Wilkins.
Oh, I'm sorry, you know, I forget.
That's OK. So you're telling us about things that were at least funny sometimes, and happened in Resurrection City.
Yes, I went one morning with Roger Wilkins, who was with the Justice Department, and a couple of other fellows from there. And you know- Justice Department people wore the tweed jackets, and the well pressed pants, and things, and their Cordovan[SIC] boots, and kind of elegant, you know. And Roger wasn't that elegant I must say. But he had on a pretty nice plaid shirt. He slipped on the board where some of this crud was and fell. And, ah, I had to laugh, well it was so ridiculous and so horrible, and, ah, but it was funny. And you had to have things to laugh about, otherwise you would have cried so hard you couldn't stand it, you know.
I want to take you back to the night that Dr. King died.
You were talking about the phone calls you were getting, ah, the President called, can you tell us about--
Well now, he didn't call, I didn't know that he called, I picked up my phone and the line was open, and I said, "Hello." And this voice said, "Mrs. Logan?" and I said, "Yes." She said, "This is the White House, will you leave your line open." And I said, "Well all right." And she said, "You do have another line in your house don't you?" And I said, "Yes, we have another line." "Well leave it open please, because President Johnson would like to speak." Well he didn't get on right away, and Ramsey Clark got on, and we commiserated awhile about how horrible it all was. At that moment, it had not been announced on the news, we were watching "Huntley-Brinkley", that Martin was dead. But of course as it turned out, he had died almost immediately. But they were trying to put people in place, in Memphis and all over the country before they announced his death. And of course, as it turned out, you know, the country went crazy. And, ah, later on, the President got on, and he wanted to get ideas about what we suggested should be done. We felt, one of the things should be that he meet, he the President, meet with the other leaders, remaining leaders like Whitney Young, and Roy Wilkins, and Bayard Rustin and Dorothy Height.
Can I cut you for one second?
I think, um, what's most interesting about what you were talking about, was why he was calling you, what he was fearful of.
If I ask you that question again--
Yeah. All right.
And just, you know. Ah, what happened when President Johnson called you. You can start by saying, "When President Johnson called he said what he felt in his voice he was fearing--"
So what happened that night when President Johnson called.
Well, ah, as I said, he didn't actually call me, I picked up the phone.
OK, but when you talked to him.
And when I talked, spoke with him, yes, I could tell he was very upset, not just about the impending death of, announcement that was gonna come out that Martin had died, but what was gonna happen to the country, and, ah, he, he felt that you know, that it was gonna be utter chaos all over the country. And you could hear the fear in his voice, and then Ramsey Clark, ah, phoned and we talked some more. And that's when we came up with the idea that we suggested to the President that he meet with the leaders. As it turned out Bayard Rustin had come here, and then my husband took him to the airport because he decided he was going to Memphis right away. And, ah, Bayard told me later that the President or the White House had pulled his plane early out of the air and landed him in Dulles Air Force.
Let me ask you one thing, did it bother you, I want to get one sentence from Mrs. Logan--
--different vocal length. Yeah, keep rolling.
In one sentence all I want you to tell me is that the night that Dr. King was shot I talked to President Johnson.
So can you tell me that?
All right. The night Dr. King--
No, let's do a conversation.
All right. OK.
So, ah, what happened that night?
Well I spoke with President Johnson.
That's all right.
Tell me what you, just tell me--
So whenever you're ready.
Ah, the night Dr. King was shot I spoke with President Johnson on the phone. And he, of course, was very distressed, very. I could hear this fear in his voice, you know. He spoke always very quietly, but he was terribly upset, and he just didn't know what to do, he was asking for help. And Ramsey Clark, who was on, who phoned also, and we talked awhile. And my husband got on, and we decided that the best thing was for the President could meet with the remaining leaders, the Black leaders.
OK, we'll cut it after that.
So in Washington, DC, and it's the night that Bobby Kennedy's body comes back by train to Washington--
Can you tell me about what happened that night?
Well, I was in Resurrection City. I was liaison between Resurrection City and the Justice Department. And, ah, I'd come back to the hotel, when I got a call that the, ah- actually, I was watching the funeral train, that if you remember that went on all day down from New York, and they called me and told me--they used to call me Madame Board, some of the members of the movement, you know- and, ah, I got in a taxi and went out to Resurrection City. And when I got there, Resurrection City ringed with armed guards. And, ah, the members of Resurrection City were all behind them, they were trying to keep them back. And, ah, I said to one of the guards, I said, "Why are you doing this?" They said, "Well you know, the funeral cortege is coming along and we don't want--"
OK. Well, I'll never forget that scene. That's really painted in my mem--
OK, it's the night that Bobby Kennedy's body is brought back to Washington, DC.
Where did you go and tell me what you saw.
I went to Resurrection City and the whole section had been ringed off, or runged off, I don't know how you say it. Anyway, there were all these guards in khaki, which ever they were, whether they were state or, they weren't local police. And, ah, I asked them, I said, "What are you doing?" And they said, "Well, Bobby Kennedy's funeral cortege is coming by." I said, "But, these people aren't going to disrupt anything, they're still grieving over Martin, and Bobby dying is just an extension of Martin's death, and they just want to be part of paying tribute to him." I said, "Please open up and let them come out." So, finally, ah, at the same time It started raining, which I never will forget it, it was the strangest, eeriest thing. It started to rain. Very light rain fall. And they finally opened up and the people from Resurrection City started marching out. Now, if you can see this: there was Resurrection City here, there was a reflecting pool and at the end there was the Lincoln Memorial with the spotlight on Lincoln's head. At the foot of the Lincoln Memorial there was a group of school children, because they had on midi-blouses and skirts, I remember, and they were singing the "Battle Hymn of the Republic". Oh, boy, so the people from Resurrection City started marching up on either side of the reflecting pools, pool. And I walked along, and I got about the middle of the pool and I looked and I saw the hearse coming along, right in front of, the foot of the Lincoln Memorial. In the hearse with the driver, Ethel Kennedy, and Teddy Kennedy, and it stopped right there and Teddy, I could see, opened the door of the hearse and leaned on it and Ethel leaned across him and they were looking at the children who were singing the "Battle Hymn". And, ah, people from Resurrection City kept moving and they started singing "Battle Hymn". At the same moment, almost, I looked up and saw the pin-spot on Lincoln's head, and above that was the moon. And it stopped raining. Oh, it was like a montage on stage, I'll never forget it**. And, the Resurrection City people were marching and singing and Teddy shut the door of the hearse and started to pull away. When it stopped, and I think it was, someone raised their hand and they looked over and saw the Resurrection City people coming and they were singing and they just walked up and got in behind the hearse, in front of all the other cars, and they marched over the bridge into Arlington. It was one of the most dramatic, profoundly moving moments I've ever known in my life. I'll never forget it.
I want you to go back, Dr. King has been assassinated and SCLC is in a state of whatever. Why the decision to go on with the Resurrection City?
I think that was something we all felt had to be done. It was kind of a continuity step to carry out what we knew was Martin's wish, whether we agree, or, at least, whether I agreed with it or not, I felt very strongly that we should do this for Martin and, ah, because, mind you, everybody was just so distraught then, We didn't know where we were going, everything was in a state of flux. And, ah, our leader was gone and we felt a great void and a terrible, sick emptiness. And, I think, we all felt we just had to do something that we hoped would be meaningful**. And we also hoped that other people would understand. It was our way of venting the terrible horror, you know, and I guess, maybe, hoping that after that had all washed that we'd be able to pick up and do something meaningful and become an effective organization again.
What was the planning like over at Resurrection City?
I don't know that there was too much planning. I think people just came, like, Andy used to say, "When you had the motor in you, you just keep on going." If we stopped because people say we shouldn't have a movement. We'd never have one. And we always counted on that. Martin used to say, ah, when we didn't know where to go and what to do, he said, "Don't worry," he said, "Bull Connor or somebody will come up and do something stupid and that'll help us," and it always did, you know, project us into another phase of the movement.
You talked about all the people who came to Washington, DC, who sacrificed a lot to come to Washington, DC.
When Resurrection City came to its end, did you feel, did the leadership feel responsible? Did you feel sad for what was happening?
I did. I can't speak for the leadership during that time, because, I think, everything was in such disarray. But, ah, yes, I felt some sense of responsibility, I don't know that I knew what I could do about it, but I felt terribly, terribly sad, because, I thought we had all these people, for whom, we had really become responsible. Many of whom, they told me, had left their homes. They said, "Miss Logan, we just came, we just left everything, just came." I wonder where a lot of them were going back to, you know, what they were going back to, and how they were going back. I don't know, it all just kind of disintegrated when they finally closed down Resurrection City. And, I have to tell you, I don't know what happened to many of those people.
You know this is 1968, Dr. King--
I want you to keep with that feeling, you know, the way you were feeling at that point in time. It's, it's, um, been a long hard year at that point. Dr. King's died, the people have really in a state of flux, a state of shock, Bobby Kennedy has died, Resurrection City has come to a less than happy end, thinking the way you felt then, did the movement go into hiding? Did the movement die?
I tell you, I was just so desolate at that point. I'm speaking about me, personally. I came home and my husband told me I guess, I remember having lost twenty-five pounds over a couple of months. My way of grieving was not always to cry, I was always too busy, but, ah, I don't think, I think the movement had lost its heart, and its conscience. I think that we tried to keep up what Martin had laid out as his great plan, but I don't think we had anybody who could control it enough to make it work. And inspire enough people to continue. I think that was the tragic thing. The tragic thing, I think, all the leaders--none of them: Martin, Whitney, Roy--ever groomed anybody else to take their place; that may be arrogance, ego, I don't know how to explain it, but, sitting here now, I think about that, and I do know that none of them did that. They all thought they were going to live forever, you know. Although, Martin always said he would die young.
In the aftermath of all that, what about the country?
Well, I think everybody was so devastated--on the liberal side--we lost Martin, and then Bobby was a very important factor in our thinking and in the liberal Democratic Party. We all thought he was really our prince who was going to become president and be greater than any that had ever happened. Because we watched Bobby really learn a lot through, I was in Mississippi with Bobby and saw him sitting with a little Black boy on his lap and the tears streaming down his cheeks. He said, "I cannot believe this is happening in America." He couldn't believe it. I said, "Bobby, go see the Indians, go to California. go see-- " He learned so much, you know, then, he would have been magnificent as a president. But, then, of course, he got it. Then, you could almost feel the country took a wide right turn. And, I don't think its recovered since. Oh, look at us now. I don't think its recovered.
OK, you're back in that evening. How did your husband finally end that evening and what did Dr. King say?
Well, by that time, Arthur was really getting very annoyed. We'd been up all night, and Martin just wouldn't let up. So, finally he said, "Martin leave her alone, can't you see she's exhausted, she's not going to change her mind." So Martin said, "Well, darling," like he often said, "I'll just have to pray for you. I'll just have to pray for you so you'll come around." Martin could put such a hurting on you, you know, he'd make you feel so guilty, and I would get so angry. Sometimes I would give in, but just a little bit, because I was not about to let him think he had one completely, you know. But, ah, I loved just tinkering with his thoughts and testing his mind, you know. And challenging him in things.
That's it, thank you very much.